The Psychology Behind Growth, Purpose, and Fulfillment | Milt Lowder

Chris Fay: Welcome to Built With Purpose. I am Chris Fay, and this is the show where vision meets execution and leadership leaves a legacy. From design studios to innovation hubs and product lines to skylines, we meet the people building more than great companies. They're creating culture, driving impact, and shaping what's next. These are the stories and strategies behind how the world gets built with purpose. Welcome to Built With purpose today is a very special day for me. I've got my friend, my mentor, peer, colleague, neighbor, fellow Clemson fan, fellow Greenville resident, all the things, Milt Louder with me today. ⁓ Lots of exciting stuff to get into. Welcome to built with purpose, my friend. ⁓ thank you, Chris. What a blessing to be a part of your life and the best title there was friends. So I appreciate you. Appreciate your family. Appreciate TPM and appreciate you having me on today. Yeah, man. Well, it's funny. So for the people that are listening, Milton and I have known each other for a lot of years. You've heard me talk about psychological safety. If you've heard me talk about some of the themes that I live in my life, my individual purpose statement, how we lead our company. This is the man, the myth. The legend and so so in kind of preparation for today, I was telling Milton Milton usually he's used to being the guy given the advice he's used to being the guy delivering the message and so now he's on the receiving end. So I hope we take you outside of your comfort zone milk and and get to get to listen and learn from you from a little bit of a different perspective today. Well, I appreciate it. I always enjoy being stretched, so we'll see how well I do on the other side. Well, I think what's what's cool and obviously we'll get into your story here here in just a little bit, but the. You've been through a pretty amazing kind of transformation of your business and your company. And, you know, I think we originally got connected from, one of my best friends who had worked with you and we were actually looking for a speaker for our kickoff meeting and it wanted to deliver that message. And it turned into this arrangement where, you know, you became a, you know, a mentor and coach of mine. And so it's, it's cool to kind of see this come full circle. was, I wrote down the The mentor is now the mentee, but I think that means that I'm supposed to teach you something. for that, I've learned a lot from you over the years. And so this would not be any different. You know, yes, then, you know, there's no greater privilege that I have than people invite you to be a part of their life and a part of their work and a part of their story and to be a partner in the process of growth and a witness to someone's growth. And the great benefit and beauty of my profession is, is you really think you're helping others. you received that tenfold back. And so I've learned so much from you and others. And so I don't expect today to be any different. Yeah, awesome. Well, I'm excited Wimble. Let's dive in. I think for the audience, I know a lot about you. I know a about your story, but just give us the 30,000 foot view, man, of like who you are and what you've been up to. And obviously, you've had a major change and shift in your business ⁓ recently and where you focus. Let's kind of dive learn a little bit. Yeah, how far back you want to go Chris here? That's let's see, you know, you're you're ⁓ as far as you want man I mean you I know some of your back stories. I'll you know, but yeah, you just start wherever you want man Yes, I think high level if you're okay I think a little bit of how I became a psychologist. ⁓ I think it's a big part of the story I remember the first talk to TPM at the Children's Museum We talked about hey you start with why you know, what's your why we played Eric the hip-hop preacher and so You know, my why and how I became a psychologist, I think hopefully gives some insight to how we practice, how we think, how we encourage others. And so I grew up in sub for South Carolina, pretty naive in terms of what I knew about the world. I knew farming because I grew up on a farm. I knew medicine because my older brother wanted to be a doctor. And I just really cared about sports and had a great childhood, ⁓ you know, a different childhood than some in terms of the farm. But Uh, my junior year, leaving a baseball game. took a left turn out of my high school, Wilson hall went about a mile down the road and there was a car in the ditch and it was my mom's car and someone had run a stop sign and hit her broadside. And I was the first person on the scene and I could definitely remember getting out of the car, running over my car. don't, I don't even know, stop. don't think I cut the car off and open the door. She's in the floorboard and blood is everywhere. And she had broken her back, her neck, her pelvis crushed her knee. Little brother was in the backseat completely and injured. And although I'd had some incidents in my life, some challenges in my life, I think that was my first introduction to what trauma really looks like and feels like. And what I've learned since then is so hard to prepare for what you can't predict, but I didn't handle it well. I couldn't drive by that spot. I avoided it. That summer, I would get up in the morning to work on the farm. I'd come take care of her for a couple hours and I'd go try to play baseball as our shortstop. And she would sit by and play Chris with this halo. ⁓ you know, drilled into her head and she, and she couldn't, she couldn't move her neck and I couldn't throw the ball to first base. I'd get a little ground ball and I had no idea where it was going. And I never connected the dots that it was related to what I experienced with her. suffered through that my junior year, go to football camp. I'm our starting quarterback and broke my arm and had to miss the first three games, which now in my life is not a big deal, but at that time it was huge. Yeah. Had a chance to play some small school baseball at Clemson and Walford and mean at Walford in the Citadel, but just tried to walk on at Clemson. I applied to one school in biology and got cut from the team. I didn't want to be 40 years old. You'll appreciate this. I remembered 18 going, I don't want to be the old guy in the stands going. could have played at Clemson. At least I wanted to try out and see. ⁓ So I came home after my freshman year and my parents separated in divorce after 27 years of something again, I was unprepared for. came back to school to start my sophomore year and a good friend of mine passed away in a car wreck. And about a month later, a friend of mine committed suicide. And the wheels came completely off of my life. I changed my major. I was going to go home and take care of the family farm. I changed my major to Ag Mech and business. Broke up my girlfriend, started drinking. I'd never had a drink before. It just had all this emotion. I didn't know how to process. And my mother called us and said, I think you need to go see a psychologist. And I wish that would have been the moment that I went and they transformed my life and I was open, but I wasn't mature enough to ask for help. I remember saying, those people are weird. I'm not going to see a psychologist. So suffered through that, kind of got home and went back to take over the farm after I graduated. My high school told, ⁓ asked me to be a high school assistant basketball coach for our varsity boys with Eddie Talley and Sumter. And I realized just why I love the farm and love the outdoors. I kind of felt this pull thinking, okay, my gifts are here. This is what I really love, bringing people together, challenging people to move higher than they think they can, bringing a team together to pursue a worthy goal. And I tried to get into college coaching with Rick Barnes and that fell through at the 11th hour. And my mother finally called and said, hey, I have a psychologist in Columbia that I think you need to go meet with. He helps people make career decisions and process. went and met with him for two hours. And you know me well enough to know I'm pretty impulsive in my decision making. Yup. By the time I left his office in five minutes back to I-26, I said, Hey, I want to do what he does. I want to, I want to further my education. want to help other people and work for myself. And so that was in 1996. Wow. And so that started a process of longer in school than I ever imagined because I didn't love school. just thinking about that two hour session, you've gone through all this sort of stuff. Obviously you come out of it with this, this idea of wanting to pursue that, but like what, what in that, what in that two hour session either helped you change your focus? Like what, what was it? What was there? Was there a moment? Was there something that you saw? Was there something that you felt? Did you go back and see the guy? like one other time it was, it was, it's a me. That's a great question. question because I've never I've always thought about the conversation, but I've never looked deeply into what was it that transformed and sparked my heart. And I think he had a really great gift of being present in the room. was the first time that somebody really ever listened to and first time I really told the story and looking and connecting the dots and the themes of my life of okay, what are some themes that have emerged in your life that probably Influence is how I think and how I act today in terms of what, what inspires you, what motivates you, what are your strengths? ⁓ what are you deeply passionate about? And so he just had a way of bringing that out, but it moved me in such a deep way that there was a burden that felt lifted and some clarity around, Hey, this is what I think I want to do. I wish I had more insight than that, but I think. you know, part of my journey is, and from a spiritual perspective, it's like, okay, is this my will or God's will? And I think there were some forces at work at the time beyond my comprehension that I understand the pain I went through, clarified my purpose. It's why I love the Built With Purpose podcast. You know, I love the title because I didn't understand that everything I'd experienced and all the pain that I suffered really shaped my purpose. And so there were forces greater than me that were at work there, but it just to me was, felt enlightened. had clarity and I had purpose that I really wanted to pursue where I had struggled there for a few years finding that. it's amazing. think like the, and obviously getting off track, we'll get back on track in a sec, but just thinking about sharing your story, being open and honest and vulnerable, and then meeting somebody that can help you take that. information, right, and coach you and steer you and get you to think a different way. Like I just I think about like when we started working together and just the the impact it had on me to be thinking about things in a different in a different lens, you know, and it just I just it just I just wrote down earlier just kind of this, you you mentioned kind of underprepared, you know, asking for help. I mean, that's a hard thing to do, especially if you don't know where to go. And I think like one of the things that you've taught me, and I would say it sounds like that, like that guy probably to some extent, ⁓ taught you is this Like this theme of being okay to ask for help. Like you don't have to solve everything yourself. You don't have to internalize a lot of these challenges. You don't have to deal with them. Like the best way to course correct is to share your story and get some advice and experience and maybe unlock something that somebody's been through before. So, and men especially struggle with that. And so, you know, what I've talked so much about now, Chris, is giving people permission to be human. And, and, and especially giving yourself, like when you give yourself permission to be human, you give other people permission to be human as well. And we're able to share that burden and share that story. As Abraham Lincoln said, problem shares a problem have. And so now it doesn't feel so overwhelming. Now I don't feel so isolated. Now I have a little bit of hope and a little bit of hope goes a long way. Yeah. And then you just mentioned that the foundation of cognitive psychology is, is kind of. as you think so you are, can we disrupt our patterns of thinking and being and doing and so sometimes we aren't able to get out of our own way to do that. Exactly right. Yeah, it's awesome. All right, keep going. I just had to dive into that for a second. You skipped the two-hour course correction of what it did for you. was like input and output, but I missed the formula there. Well, I appreciate you because I haven't thought about that in that level, so I might have go back and explore it. If I had any idea how long it was going to take, I might not have done it to become a psychologist. I mean, I had to go back and take undergrad psychology. I got a master's degree, an educational specialist degree. Before I got my PhD, I had to do an internship at Clemson. And so now seven years later, this is 2004, I'm married, I have a child, my wife gets pregnant, she's at home with our children and one on the way. And I'm making $17,000 at Clemson with no benefits. And so it's just been a grind. so the next year I started the practice in 2005 on my postdoc Clemson offered me to stay to get my formal supervision. went off me a $5,000 raise and I met Ron Reese here in Greenville. And as, everybody was telling me, this is a good lesson for all of us as well. called six psychologists Chris and Greenville. telling them what I wanted to do to start my practice on my postdoc. And all six of them said, you can't do it. to the last one, I said, I thought we were in the business of helping people pursue their dreams, not telling them what they can't do. What I know now is they meant it was really difficult. And there was some truth to that. But Ron Reese said, hey, yeah, I'll register some office space. I'll feed you a few clients. Come on. And so the vision's. you started was it was it was your hit on here the vision. But did you because you've gotten you've kind of gotten into this like athletics and enterprise and CEOs like when you started like, yeah, tell me tell me what you want to do. Like when you first start you like ma'am start my practice Ron's gonna help me out. I got this office praise. Who am I going after 1997? You know, when I was taking undergraduate classes in South Carolina, I had to write a vision for and I know you talked about your purpose statement and your vision statement. And so mine was this, I'm a great husband and father. wasn't married. I had zero children. have a private private. I'm a respected psychologist in Greenville and I'm a professor at Clemson. I use my education, my experiences, my faith to instill others and help others be the best that they can be teaching more from my failures and my successes. And I make enough money in life to do things with the people I want to do them with. So that was 1997. And so the whole vision was to have a private practice. And teach at Clemson. So as I was starting my postdoc, they asked me to teach a leadership class, PRTM 308 at Clemson. ⁓ yeah. There you go. And so I was teaching that class. also, Terry Don Phillips created a position at Clemson called the director of student athlete welfare and performance. And I've gotten reconnected to Clemson. I'd worked with a few athletes my internship year. And I applied for the job knowing if I got the job, I couldn't be licensed as a psychologist. But I presented a model to Terry Don around well-being and mental health of our student athletes and coaches, as well as peak performance from a psychological skills perspective. And it's the same model we use today. And it's the research that Gallup backs up in terms of driving engagement and performance in a workplace setting that the companies that prioritize one's well-being and their performance higher rates of engagement, success and performance. And to his credit, he called, he didn't give me the job. He didn't think I was qualified for the job, but he called me the next day. Good luck to you, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. I am so thankful because he called me the next day and said, Hey, I'm giving this job to Loretta Jackson. You know, she's way more qualified than you, but what you presented, we do not have anybody doing that. Would you be willing to come over one day a week? And help our athletic department. my only question, Chris, I remember thinking what day you want me. I mean, I had nothing else. so I never dreamed about being a sports psychologist. Although I coach basketball, although I played sports my whole life, that was never, ⁓ I never dreamed I'd have some of the opportunities. And then the corporate side, Ron did a little bit of work in the corporate space, really in family business. It's really an expert in family business. But Jeff Powell in Greenville was a great friend of mine and he was a regional director for St. Jude medical selling pacemakers. And he lived two doors down and in 2008, he said, Hey, I think the principles you're teaching these athletes and coaches would apply to my sales team. Would you be willing to come talk to our sales team? And so that started our work in the corporate space. Wow. So cool. Well, and then, then, mean, gosh, you've, I mean, you've been through just being a Clemson fan myself and we didn't meet through Clemson. just happened to be. then, you know, just thinking about the, the, level of performance that you've worked with. mean, thinking about national championship teams at Clemson working, you know, with, Dabo and that team. And I know you've worked, you know, we're, probably one of the smaller clients you have, but you've worked in some really large scale spaces. So what, what's that been like to just, you think about building a practice kind of sharing your best, sharing your life, sharing these principles to help individuals. But then all of a sudden you're, you're helping, you know, probably multi-billion dollar your companies grow and you're helping a team, you know, win and succeed in the national championship. mean, it's, it's like the, the tip top pinnacle. I mean, what's, what's that ride been like? It's really been beyond my wildest dreams. And I think, you be well enough to know I'm a dreamer. I never dreamed I'd have some of the possibilities to work. in settings that I've worked. so in 2009, met Drew Brannon or 2008. And so in 2009, he was still in grad school at Georgia. And I kind of laid out the second iteration of my vision statement, a kind of a mind map. And it was called Louder Group at the time, Chris, and all my friends laughed. I was like, who's the group? And I'm like, we're focused on where we're going. comfortable, man. It's like, vice president. Yeah, I'm the vice president. Yeah. Hell yeah. And so I drew out kind of a clinical on one side. I drew out an assessment and learning center on one side and I drew out the performance and I said, hey, Drew, you know, if you, if you come join me, we'll build this clinical and assessment practice that's separate of us. And we'll have this performance psychology practice in this sport and performance world. And Drew at the time was working at Georgia with his PhD. He was serving as their sports psychologist, even in grad school. And so. That started kind of this focus on using our mental skills. And one of the things I know to be true, the mental skills that make you successful in sport, they make you successful in business. They all make you successful in life. And, and that day that started in Clemson went to a day and a half and then coach Sweeney got the job and Loretto Jackson called me and say, he's trying to hire another psychologist. If you really want to work with football, you better go meet with him. And so I met with him in the summer of 2009 and he's like, well, why should I hire you? And so I laid out five reasons why I thought I could do the job. And to this day, Chris, he tells me, hires me because I was cheap and I'm like, well, you were too, right? Let's don't forget. Exactly. Yeah. You were, you were pretty cheap too. Now our pay scales is not kind of gone the same path over the years. Well, I was going to ask, are you just not on the same revenue trajectory? Yeah, yeah. I'm still comparably speaking pretty cheap. But one of my favorite quotes, and you know I love quotes, Henry David Thoreau said, success comes with those who are too busy to be looking for it. And so you know what it's like to build a business, build a life. ⁓ The pace that I was working at and I still work at a pretty high pace. It was hard to kind of stop and process and for a while there, even our first national championship at Clemson, again, if you'd have told me in 96 or 97, I would be working with Clemson football. I would have a front row seat to our greatest run in history that I would be part of a national champ, now two in football and two in soccer. And I definitely wouldn't have believed the two in soccer. ⁓ and Mike Noonan wouldn't have believed it either, our coach, but Chris, didn't enjoy it for the first 10 years because I was no longer a fan and no longer a coach. was walking this middle ground and I went over there with the expectation that I had to act like a psychologist. And, and again, I already mentioned, I think I'm a little bit different as a psychologist. And so there's pictures of me. fact, there's a game in Raleigh in 2011 and the running back is like he's, he's, he's running out of bounds and coach Swinney is like, okay, if he comes, like I'm going to nail him. Like, like if he comes two steps closer, coach Swinney, I think was going to attack him. he's, he's all in it. And I'm standing right beside him like this. And he actually printed the picture out and signed it. And he say, Milt, Hey, where's your football stance, get in the game. And I'd let something that was such a great blessing become a little bit of a burden of expectation that I needed to act a certain way. And it wasn't until later that year, 2015, that Marion Hobbie gave a devotion and he said, why is it that you let the burden of expectations take away your joy? And so I've tried to be more joyful. and I think sometimes it's still a struggle. I've never watched our national championship games since I've never going to look back. ⁓ and so just trying to be mindful and so grateful for the opportunity. But it's really hard to believe that I've, I've, I've been able to be a part of these successes with your company, with Clemson. and with other people around the world, it really is very humbling. Yeah, well, it's fine. And I identify with you a bit and maybe in a little bit of a different lane, but I'm not great at celebrating milestones because like for me, it's the chase, it's the hunt. Like that's where I get like my individual motivation. And so for instance, like we bought a company six weeks ago, right? And so you know, working all the way up to it. We signed the paperwork and like I was going to work. Like I'm like, sweet. All right, let's go. Now what's, what's the next step? And everyone's like, ⁓ congratulations. I'm like, Hey, I'm okay. Whatever. Like bam. And, like, I think about, you know, how to make sure that, that, that I'm stepping back and enjoying the ride. And you know, this, you're, coming around kind of the burden of expectations. I think, I think one thing that you helped me with one time, ⁓ was when we were in a, we were talking and I was telling you about like, you know, I need to, I have to, You know, I can't do this, you know, and, and, know, I was just, just my language was putting this, this like burden of expectation on me. And so you, you, you told me to focus on the word choose to, know, instead of, instead of I have to, need to, I must, you know, I can't this is, know, what, am I choosing to do? And so I remember that day I wrote down, ⁓ choose to, and it's still, it's still on my desk. It's still right there. I've got a, I've got a, what's the one thing quote just to keep me centered on where I need to be spending my time. I've got choose to, and then I've got a Galatians quote that I actually just put up there. You're amazing at quoting scripture and quotes and everything. I'm not, so always have to look it up, but it's similar to your, this is a quiz. Galatians. I'm guessing 522 or 6, 9 through 10. don't know what 6, 9 through 10. He says, ⁓ do not go weary and doing the right. when the time is right, will reap a harvest. And I don't know how it tends, but that's, that's pretty much pretty much what it says. long as you don't give up. So, so that, that, hit me. was actually funny enough. This is crazy. How the cycles come. I was at the, ⁓ all in ball with Clemson Dabo. He was talking about these changes that he's been going through and the challenges of, know, this pinnacle of where he was. That's of his favorite versus. Yeah, yep. so and that and so was thinking about for us and I'm like thinking about all this change that we're going through and these things and it's like, you know, if I just continue to do the right things, I continue to do good and I believe and I trust, you know, God and where and where we're heading that, you know, I'll reap a harvest, but I can't give up and I think that can't give up really hit me because it's easy to get into like these challenging times and think that I can't do this and I can't do these and Maybe it's just better if I quit. Maybe if I, maybe if I just stop and reduce the pain and the pressure, but then there's like that hope of like, man, you might actually get to where you want to go, but I want to make sure that I'm able to celebrate when I get there. Cause I love the hunt. Like I love the, I love the ride. You know what I mean? Well, there's so much done packed there. And I love like, if we don't have constant reminders, Chris, of who we want to be, then we'll develop the picture of who we don't want to be. And so one of the great gifts of being human, go back to remission to be human means you get to have. human reactions. You now I went to Kentucky for grad school and they had a very trauma based program. And I'm like, hey, I just want to work with normal people with normal problems. was so naive and ignorant because, you know, death, taxes, and trauma is something I know we're all going to experience as human beings. And so I teach now there's some common reactions to uncommon events. And as a human being, you get to have permission to experience those. But being human means we have the freedom to choose a different response. And there's great freedom when we have power of choice. How do I want to respond? How do I want to show up? What is important to me? And I don't have the courage to keep living according to what I believe. And then the thoughts that drive that, how do you know you're living up to the burden of expectations? Need to, have to, should or can't. Yeah. Yeah. What I, and I remember you had the, were, we were, was working on my individual purpose statement and the, two things that you, helped me with on that. And one thing that you, you pushed me on and I haven't, haven't actually corrected it. And I want to make sure we're not turning this into a Chris fake coaching session. I need, I need it. I want it that, that helped. So maybe we go along and I get a little bit of extra help. No, no. But when I was, when I was doing my individual purpose statement, the, you, you asked me at the front of not like I want to become, or I'm going to become. I am so I you I am a happy healthy family-centered leader, you know and then and so that kind of I am in the present of Always picturing what what you want what you want to become and then the other thing that you pushed me on and I think this this like leads into this burden of expectation is I added in there after the fact striving to be an extraordinary human and And you pushed me on that and asked me like what's an extraordinary human like like why are you placing, you happy, healthy, family-centered leader, inspiring growth with individuals, teams, and organizations through bold humility, perspective, and grace. And so all of these things. But then I inserted that extraordinary human. And you're like, hang on a second. That might be not an unrealistic expectation, but you might be placing expectations on yourself that might ensue pressure. So essentially, just weaving these things into some of the things that I've experienced. I am. ⁓ You one, you state it as if, right? You want to minimize any doubt. And so I hope to, I want to, I will be, it just leaves some wiggle room. And so you want to state it definitively and declared like, this is who I am. This is how I'm going to pursue. I'm a great husband and father. I'm a, I'm I'm a focus on my family, whatever that may be. Cause then we leave room for doubt when it gets really tough. we tend to shy away from it because it's so inconsistent with who we are. Like my vision statement now also has very little of what I am doing and more about who I am becoming, but there's things in there that are so aspirational I'll never achieve. So that, like let's dream big, but the piece, go back to even your verse, sometimes we can take some things and think that Positive thoughts will guarantee positive results. That's kind of what Tom Kite said positive thoughts don't guarantee positive results And so what harvest we may reap it may be different than what we ever imagined, right? And there's no guarantee I think some of the things we tell people now that you Speak things into existence. I see a lot of leaders say hey manifest your death is that destiny you can speak things into existence Well, there's only one person that has ever spoke things into existence and he's not human. And so we've to be careful sometimes, not that you're doing this, but in a prosperity gospel world, in a very prosperous world that, hey, if you just dream and believe, that's true, but there's no guarantees. But that's why going back to success, you said it best, that I love to hunt, I love building, I love creating, I love being a part of something greater than myself. defining success is achieving a goal is such a poor definition. One is I just mentioned there's no guarantee you're going to achieve it. Even a happy, healthy family, there's no guarantees there. Right. And two, what happens once you achieve the goal? What's next? Yeah, right. Very seldom do we celebrate it. Yep. And so that's what go ahead. No, no, I just I'll say what made me think about is I've had so many people. Well, so gosh, I can turn this around and ask you as well. I mean, thinking about, you know, whether it's selling a business or hitting a major milestone or doing these significant things that people feel, they're like, ⁓ my gosh, like, I feel like this is the pinnacle. And then they realized that they actually just loved the, especially for, I would say the CEOs I've talked to that have sold their business and then get out of the race. You know what mean? They're like, man, I miss my team. I miss the work. I miss the practice. I thought that like selling this business would be the ultimate. Obviously you've recently sold. soldier business and you're still I mean, you're still actively in the hunt and in the and in the practice. So a little bit of a different scenario. But yeah, I agree with you. And I was actually thinking about the other day thinking about, you know, even that that Galatians quote of will reap the harvest, you know, what I think that might mean might be something completely different. Like, I may I may go bankrupt, all this stuff fails. But somehow it brings me closer to my family. And that's the harvest that I get now. I hope that's not the case, but I hope not either. Right. But you're like, you know, my harvest might be that, you know, we, we scale this company, we solve lots of problems, we do all these things, but the harvest might actually be something that's a little bit different than I can't see yet. And you may never see it on this side of heaven. Proverbs 25 two says it is to the glory of God, it can seal the matter to search out a matter to the glory of Kings. And so you may never, it may never reveal to you what that harvest is, especially on this side of heaven. And so I think that's the piece of, but I do know how do you put that into practice and how do you focus on what are the things that inspire you and when you feel alive and what is your purpose? And are you living in accordance with that? But back to kind of this milestone we create in our minds that, I mean, I remember thinking when I was growing up, like when I get to be a senior, I'm going to be the man. Like I'm going to be 6'2". I'm going be, you know, when I'm 22 and graduate, I'm going to get married at 25 and I'm going have kids at 28. And this is what life is going to look like. And I just kind of had all the, like, you probably can tell in the podcast, I've never gotten past five, eight, and I hope I'm still there. And so we create these milestones in our minds. Like if I can just achieve this, then that will mean I've made it. And that will mean I can be happy. Well, back to the Bible, it says nothing about happiness. It says all these things about being joyful when you struggle and when you face trials and tribulations and how you persevere. But I remember in 2015, about that national championship game, when you heard me talk about this, first game, first national championship game we have played since 1981, Alabama in Arizona. I'm on the bus 30 minutes and I have tears in my eyes thinking about how in the world did I ever get here? It just was a very, I mean, I can vividly remember and I'm trying to text people that helped me along the way. And I know I left people out, but it just was so powerful. Well, we got beat. was an unbelievable game. And so I got back in front of our team that, that spring and I put that life cycle of a business, which is what I showed to the children's museum, you know, however many years ago is, Hey, Jerry started this in 1973, if I remember correctly, or 71, somewhere was it 73? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we think about that life cycle. And we know at some point we're going to hit our prime, or as you said, that pinnacle. And then we know the curve. After we hit that pinnacle, there's a slow, steady decline towards death and irrelevancy, unless we find a way to be innovative from position of strength. And I really got this from my preacher talking about the citizens of Galatia and the Bible, or no, the Philippians, where Paul was so encouraging. And, he, and I told our team guys, are unbelievable memories. Memories class you a lifetime to me a lifetime, but if we don't find a way to keep our dreams, your memories, we're going to accomplish what we want to accomplish. Yeah. Yeah. And, and my heart is really feeling compelled of how am I helping older men keep their dreams, your other memories, ⁓ to maintain a sense of purpose, to maintain a sense of relevancy. Um, that who they are becoming is maybe less important is more important than what they are accomplishing because what tends to happen after we reached that pinnacle and we quit dreaming and we aren't responsible, we are pursuing more and more men are experiencing significant levels of anxiety and depression. They're attempting suicide. They're, they're, they're, falling victim to suicide. So that's why it's so important to keep hunting. Yeah. Right. Yeah, and think I and so many so many cases like exactly as you said, like that. It's kind of the technology adoption curve. It's any it's anything right is absolutely the the of it. And you know, so many times I know so many people that that when you talk to them, all they talk about are the things they've done or the things they've experienced, but they're not really excited about kind of what's in the what's shield. And I think it was Jelly Roll said it he's like the windshields bigger than the rearview mirror for a reason my friends like Jelly Roll. You're quoting the Bible. I'm quoting jelly roll. I'm not sure. love it. So, but I think that's true is like, let's, both admit we can do a better job of appreciating where we've been. so I appreciate this chance to kind of think back through my life. And you know, there's, there's no reason I've been afforded the opportunities, just grace. And so I want to be grateful of that and appreciative, but I also want to believe the best is yet to come. also want to keep striving. And I think. too many people kind of create this idea of success. If I could just get this, then I'll be happy. Then I'll do this. Instead of saying, are the variables? Like what inspires you? When do you feel most alive? Who is it that you want to become? What is that vision for your life? Why? Like what is your purpose on this earth? And you're built with a purpose for a purpose. Yeah, I love it, man. So let me ask. So a couple, I got a couple of questions. One, one is Athletes, know on the athletic side obviously it's it's it's probably college, know college athletes of a certain age and then if you're dealing with you know executives or or kind of C-suite and others are probably typically a little bit older Is there a common theme that you see in in most people that have never gotten? Help from somebody like you before like is there is there a common denominator that most people? ⁓ either struggle with or have a hard time with or have a breakthrough with whether it's kind of independent of age and experience and what they're going through. there any major common dominators? Yeah, Chris, what's really been nice to me to being from just a foreign boy in Oswego, South Carolina to really understand Oswego, South Carolina. It's out there. ⁓ yeah. just we're going deeper. It's really awesome. Go. Yes. Louder Brothers Gin Company in Oscego, South Carolina. It was that and a post office when I grew up. To understand that the principles that we teach and believe in are truly universal. I had the privilege of giving a keynote for Cushman and Wakefield down in Orlando and there were 750 people that were international, Chicago, New York, always loved my Southern accent when these people from LA and Chicago and New York. like, hey y'all, how you doing? And so I had a lady from Italy come up to me and say, Hey, do you think what you're teaching is universally applied? I said, well, let me ask you the question. What do you think? And she started kind of understanding and deciphering because maybe I think we had different values at some point in Europe, but we're all now kind of falling into this concept of pursuing the American dream. that, that, that it's really life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. There's no guarantee. Right? Not happiness, the pursuit of happiness. The pursuit of it, back to pursuing a worthy goal. And so these universal principles, I've kind of put them in this concept. If you've heard me talk about playing free and living free, which stands for focus, relax, engage, and enjoy. So part of the principles that I see, the common principles of the burden of expectations, defining success incorrectly. the the the reliance of understanding that our brain is wired to protect us from threats. We have 50,000, 70,000 thoughts a day. Seven percent of those thoughts seem to be automatic and negative. And and so we aren't able to quiet our mind and quiet our body or activate our mind. We're too busy living to somebody else's dream. We're living up to somebody else's expectations that we've put limits on ourselves. By the labels we've assigned ourselves or assigned others. And we end up living a life with regret. Part of my job as a husband, a father, a psychologist, a friend is to help people minimize regret. so part of my vision now is to help people find meaning in their suffering, to help people to have the courage to pursue their dreams, to instill hope. And so what are the self-limiting beliefs and thoughts and doubts and behaviors and actions that have become a part of your life? that are setting limits on your life. And so that's what I see are like some of those universal principles. Yeah, I can imagine like just thinking about a high performing athlete that's getting into college, the expectations of having to perform and supporting your hometown and where you've come from and playing at this next level. And certainly I've experienced in a ⁓ CEO position or a leader position, this expectation like I gotta have my stuff together. gotta... I got to set the right example for everybody. I got to make sure I perform and just like those expectations are so great at those levels. I, and that makes, that makes perfect sense. And, you know, the, ability to just be free, you know what mean? And just enjoy, enjoy the pursuit. And where does life happen and performance take, it takes place in the present moment. Right. And so one of the big things we talk about, one of the other apps is focus on what you can control. And it goes back to that attitude quote that I love. I will repeat the whole thing for you, but Charles and all life is 10 % what happens and 9 % of I react to it. And so we try to make people very mindful of the things we can not control being human. can't control the past. can't change the environment. Whether that's weather or politically or economically, I can't change the past. Well, what happens Chris, we stay stuck in the past, that's depression. And I can't control the future. And that anticipatory anxiety, what happens when I focus on the future is anxiety. so helping people understand what are the things I can influence, what are the I can control, what are the things I cannot. And can I let go of the things I cannot control and focus on the things I can. Yep. You taught me that lesson and it's amazing. I was thinking about this the day, I was actually talking to somebody who, you know, I watch the news, I keep an eye on what's going on, but I don't get too wrapped up in it. But my buddy works and lives in DC. And when you talk to him, the world is collapsing. And I'm like, you know what, if you don't watch the news, actually things are actually pretty good. know Ingris is bliss, yes. To some extent, like, you know, if you're in it and you're thinking about it you're worrying about it, all of a sudden there's the stress and pressure and anxiety, but then... If you kind of just to your point, like focus on what you can control. Like I can't control what's going on in Iran. I can't control what's going on outside of these walls, but to your point control my attitude and where I spend my time and how I communicate and what I do. like there's a freedom that comes in that for sure. Yeah. And I think understanding that it goes back to even if the negative faults are true, the world is falling apart. It's a terrible, like even if that's true, how do those thoughts help? Yeah, right. How do they help you move forward? How do they help you live with purpose? How do you help help you be who you want to be in those situations? And I think, Chris, one of the other things that I think is so important, somebody said, what do you think is the number one thing holding people back today? Cognitive psychology, at first I go to their thought life. But to me, as I thought more about that, and I teach a lot on this, is our inability to understand and practice forgiveness. And the best definition I've heard is Louis Meade says, forgiveness is where that person or that event doesn't control you. Or I would add, keep you from being who you want to be. And so I see so many people, high performers, and in all walks of life, that they aren't able to receive forgiveness for what's been done to them. Or they aren't able to forgive themselves for the mistakes that they've made. And back to being free, Louis Meade says, forgive is a set of prisoners free. and realize that the prisoner was you. Yeah. And so what are we choosing? I love to choose to write because there's big difference in forgiveness and forgetting. Yep. Right. It's 70 times seven, meaning every time I think about it, I got to choose forgiveness because that's what leads to freedom. Yeah. Yeah. Which is what you choose to do. It's your decision. You I you can't change. You can't change things have happened. All right. So I want to pivot for a second and kind of talk about a little bit of your journey recently. ⁓ Two things kind of on my mind are, ⁓ you you started this, you ⁓ bought a farm, right? And you started this center called Mill Pine. And so I'd like to learn a bit more about that. then also you just sold your business. Like you sold your practice and you're now Amplos powered by Elliot Davis. And so obviously I know the folks, Elliot Davis and a great organization, huge organization. you're joining somebody with that level of horsepower. mean, the powered by is probably probably there like, just kind of tell me like the last what the last year where you were the next couple years few like what's what's give me give me some insights in that and what that change has been like. so go back like 97. Like I'm a being private partners by myself and teach at Clemson. Yeah. And so I never dreamed again, the opportunities or what would come our way. I never dreamed of selling the business especially to I'm now a shareholder and accounting firm. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. can promise you. But the, willingness to sell is we started working with their leadership and their shareholders and their principals and their directors two and a half years ago on the mindset and skillset for growth. And so we touched a lot of people in this organization and came to respect who they are, how they work, what their dreams are. And so when they were acquired or, uh, private equity took a big stake in Elliott Davis in July, 6.4. They called us last July and said, hey, have y'all ever thought about selling? I was like, true, Brandon. I'm like, no. But let's have a conversation. And so we try to practice what we preach. And so if we believe once performance is equal to your mindset, times your ability, times your resources, what really became evident, and this is what high performance, what you've done at TPM. high performance environments or characterize your ability to maximize strengths and minimize resources, minimize weaknesses. And they've got the resources to really support our growth. And so, when you own the business, you run the business, you get the business and do the business, you're very lean and that's what Drew and I were at Amplus. And so now as we've kind of created this human capital division at Elliott Davis, It's how do we do what you do best and how do you fulfill that purpose and that why about being interested and relevant and encouraging and how do we help people be better and pursue better. So it just gives us a chance to help our people internally. Like I think my job for our team internally is something to have a meaningful life and a meaningful career. And then externally, we now have resources to impact and help others at a much deeper level. And so that's the It's been a great, they've been awesome over here at LA Davis. Yeah, that's awesome. Alex, I'm so excited for you. I heard a little bit of rumblings about it and then certainly want to catch up on it more, but I'm excited for you. I thought about, before even talking to you, that's exactly what I was thinking. was like, golly, like Milt and Drew are so impactful when they're in front of a crowd, when they're in front of an individual, when they're helping and coaching and leading. And you know, two things, LA Davis is going to provide all the, all the other stuff that's not the highest and best use of, of Milton and Drew's time, but then also open up, you know, even more possibilities and more people to impact. so, no, it's, it's awesome, man. Congrats. Well, you know, me, I mean, I've always said people work with me despite the challenges of working with me. Right. And so you use like, just hope this recording works, my technological skills and those. So, so it's, it's great to have a team, ⁓ to support us there. And then. The mill pine piece, Jim Lair was the first sport and psychologist turned corporate psychologist. And probably 25 years ago when I decided to become a psychologist, I'd heard about this human performance Institute in Orlando, Florida. And so he would fly you down there and you and Casey maybe, and you'd stay in downtown Orlando. And he would put you through the paces of his mental and physical process. His process for helping you gain clarity mentally and to get better physically. And so we just teach in a little bit more holistic way of mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, relational, behavioral health. And so when I read about that, just another dream was like, Hey, how cool would it be to one day create a human performance Institute instead of downtown Greenville, it framed by land. And so bringing in the two worlds that I love the land and we know the brain is more open to opportunities and experiences. And we know we draw deeper connections. when we're in a new environment, we're in a peaceful place. so ⁓ Mill Pine is something we purchased in 2020. It's 350 acres in Liberty. And I kind of call it our growth sanctuary where we're using the land to teach some of our fundamentals and help people think a little bit deeper about their purpose and about their life, about who they want to be and help them come together to perform at a higher level. Yeah, I love that. And I've been obviously I've been out there and it's an amazing we hosted one of our leadership retreats out there and have experienced that before. So yeah, so so exciting to hear you. Hear you talk about that. So Mill, mean, kind of closing, just I mean, good gracious, we talked about a lot. The good news, I got a little bit of a little bit of coaching and development in my own mind here today to help help. Because I called my wife yesterday on the way home. I was I've been in Atlanta a couple days. I was in Chicago last week. I've been traveling, we're doing a bunch of M &A stuff, the work is, I mean, know, just, and I called her yesterday, I'm like, man, I'm just like, I just am like, feeling the anxiety and the pressure. And I've never, I've never, the word anxiety has always been something in my mind that I don't, I don't, I haven't identified with. And so I, I just told her, was like, I'm just feeling it. Like I've got pressure in my chest. And, and so today, today was great just to catch up with you. And we had a great kind of conversation yesterday about everything. And I think just those principles of, really focusing on what you can control, right? And, and and making sure that we're free to enjoy the journey and releasing some of that burden of expectations. Because if I think back to yesterday, that's what I was feeling. And I think about our listeners, a lot of leaders and entrepreneurs and business owners and executives and people that are either leading companies, they're leading teams and organizations, or they might just be leading themselves. I guess my closing question for you is what What advice and you've given us tremendous amount today, but if but you know, one of my favorite books is the one thing just kind of the staring question of what's the one thing like like what's the one thing you think our listeners could take away from today to immediately make an impact in their life tomorrow, man How long do you know when you're limit a one thing? I that is that is you said you want me to get uncomfortable you have completely made me uncomfortable. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you do one one thing You and oh here. Let's make it even more. Let's even make it even more comfortable You have to you have to weave a quote in because you're one of the most amazing quoters I can't come up with a good idea of my own I can't even remember what I have for breakfast this morning man, and you're like your memory I'm still seeing louder brothers and ash ash God, South Carolina man. I'll go and you gonna can I can I share with you one really cool thing? Yeah before we get to that final one thing. my, my mom was in Charleston. By the way, I'm just going to tell you this good at it, but it's, it's really powerful. And so she, um, she had some things from my childhood growing up and pictures and, and she shared a letter from my dad. I don't know if your leaders can see this. It's on my iPad, but if you go down, it's a louder brothers, uh, invoicing. stationary, Loudon Brothers Gen Company. And I was at camp, and this is what it says, deer milk, we sure miss you in the store, because that was my summer job. I was pulling weeds and helping in the store, and also around the house. We caught 14 rockfish yesterday between five and nine pounds. Sure hope you're having a good time. And then this is what's so important. You don't have to win any prize. Just give it your best. All the time with plenty of hustle. Remember you were number one with me. Good luck. And I love you dad. Wow. That is awesome, man. ⁓ my gosh. And so I'm getting emotional reading it today. And so maybe that's a way to close. My son, Jay is graduating from Clemson tomorrow and I've picked songs out for each of my children when they were born. And the song that I picked out for him was something to be proud of. And the refrain is it's a good old country song from Montgomery Gentry. The refrain is if all you've ever done is the best you can, then you did it, man. Yeah. That's something to be proud of. Yeah. And so that one thing I would encourage your listeners to do is like, Hey, what are the worthy goals you really want to pursue? And then narrow your focus on pursuing those with give your best. with a lot of hustle. And then that is something to be proud of. And more importantly, you are something to be proud of. Love that man. That is the, that is the perfect, perfect message. And I think that, you know, it's in today's world, especially, ⁓ pressures of, of business and competition and kids and, and just the world it's, it's, it's amazing. And I think trying to find a way to center on things that are really important to you, right? doing things that you're going to be proud of, like is, I mean, what an amazing way to close. So I love that, man. Well, no, can't, can't tell you, man. I just, ⁓ the time that the impact you've had on my life over the, eight or nine years that we've had, I'm so like proud to call you my friend and my mentor. You've changed my life. You changed our business and You know, having that exponential effect through me into others, I think is important. And it's one of the reasons this podcast wouldn't exist without you either. So, I mean, you think about like all the network effect of that. So I can't tell you how much I appreciate you, my friend, and for being on the podcast today. It's awesome. Man, the feeling is so mutual. What a blessing it is to be a part of your life. Not only work, but personally, and to have you trust me to share your life and share your vision. And I mean, our first meeting, remember Vivid Vision 2022. I think it was 2017. I still remember you coming over to Antrim Drive and kind of laying out that journey. so such a blessing. And I'm grateful to you and Casey and the whole TPM family. But thank you for having me. And I do believe for you and for me and for all of us, the best is yet to come. OK, thanks for joining me on Built With Purpose. If you have enjoyed today's episode, subscribe, share, us a review. helps more bold leaders find the show. For resources and show notes, visit our website and connect with me, Chris Faye, on LinkedIn. Until next time, keep building great companies, cultures, and legacies with purpose.